[KitC]

Call me crazy...I moved up from a 2009 MKS to a 2010 MKS EcoBoost.

I drove the '09 from Oct 08 thru last month, and have driven the new one about 1500 miles so far. Both vehicles are/were the Ultimate version with all options.

The 2009 had 20" wheels and it was rough and noisy, especially on the small country roads that I drive on. The 2010 also has the 20" wheels and is almost silent on the same roads and the handling is much better.

I was satisfied with the performance on the '09..until I drove the '10. Wow..what a difference. No lag in torque and the transmission works much smoother than the '09. In it, when I slowed down for a stop it seemed as if the transmission went into neutral until I stopped. Almost like pushing in the clutch on a manual transmission.

The new arrangement of the shifter in the console with the Drive and Manual position, and the paddle shifters is make it a lot more user friendly.

The new position of the speedometer in the center makes reading it much easier. In the '09 I would have to drop my head to see it behind the steering wheel. Gauges seem to be brighter, especially at night. The jury is still out on the mood lighting.

The new mirrors do a great job of making blind spots visable.

The '09 had white interior with dark wood and the new one has camel interior with light wood. It just feels "warmer" now. The white always felt "sterile" and "cold".

The '09 had white suede paint and the '10 has platinum white.

The new one has the Active Park Assist. I haven't tried it yet in an actual situation but have played with it in the driveway.

It also has the Collision Warning with brake assist. Hope I don't ever need this one, but the row of bright red lights on the lower windshield will get your attention.

Fuel economy has improved by 1mpg over the '09 so far. Can't tell any difference between 87 and 92 octane gas.

It has the rear window sun screen that works manually and automatically.

It doesn't have the EcoBoost appearance package. I didn't want the black interior. No red S but it does have the EcoBoost emblem on the trunk deck.

If I can answer any other questions, feel free to ask.

Will change my pictures when the weather gives us a break.

[brucelinc]

I don't think you are one bit crazy. I never owned an '09 but drove them on several different occasions - including a long weekend. I will not knock the '09 in any way - they are great. However, the 2010 with ecoboost is quite an upgrade for all the reasons you mention. Mine is red candy with camel and I love the interior. Some do not like the light colored wood but after the dark charcoal/dark wood that was in my LS, the camel/light wood is very inviting.

Congratulations on your purchase.

[johnt47]

KitC, on Jan 7 2010, 08:14 PM, said:

Call me crazy...I moved up from a 2009 MKS to a 2010 MKS EcoBoost.

I drove the '09 from Oct 08 thru last month, and have driven the new one about 1500 miles so far. Both vehicles are/were the Ultimate version with all options.

The 2009 had 20" wheels and it was rough and noisy, especially on the small country roads that I drive on. The 2010 also has the 20" wheels and is almost silent on the same roads and the handling is much better.

I was satisfied with the performance on the '09..until I drove the '10. Wow..what a difference. No lag in torque and the transmission works much smoother than the '09. In it, when I slowed down for a stop it seemed as if the transmission went into neutral until I stopped. Almost like pushing in the clutch on a manual transmission.

The new arrangement of the shifter in the console with the Drive and Manual position, and the paddle shifters is make it a lot more user friendly.

The new position of the speedometer in the center makes reading it much easier. In the '09 I would have to drop my head to see it behind the steering wheel. Gauges seem to be brighter, especially at night. The jury is still out on the mood lighting.

The new mirrors do a great job of making blind spots visable.

The '09 had white interior with dark wood and the new one has camel interior with light wood. It just feels "warmer" now. The white always felt "sterile" and "cold".

The '09 had white suede paint and the '10 has platinum white.

The new one has the Active Park Assist. I haven't tried it yet in an actual situation but have played with it in the driveway.

It also has the Collision Warning with brake assist. Hope I don't ever need this one, but the row of bright red lights on the lower windshield will get your attention.

Fuel economy has improved by 1mpg over the '09 so far. Can't tell any difference between 87 and 92 octane gas.

It has the rear window sun screen that works manually and automatically.

It doesn't have the EcoBoost appearance package. I didn't want the black interior. No red S but it does have the EcoBoost emblem on the trunk deck.

If I can answer any other questions, feel free to ask.

Will change my pictures when the weather gives us a break.

Thanks for the information. I'm planning on buying a 2011 and am glad to read your thoughts on most of the impiortant features, especially the ecoboost. I've done research on several other makes/models but the MKS seems to have the most attraction in terms of options, acessories, look, etc.

[Madlock]

johnt47, on Mar 20 2010, 07:36 AM, said:

Thanks for the information. I'm planning on buying a 2011 and am glad to read your thoughts on most of the impiortant features, especially the ecoboost. I've done research on several other makes/models but the MKS seems to have the most attraction in terms of options, acessories, look, etc.

As a shareholder, I offer a hearty "Thank you!". As a fellow owner, I'm green with envy.

Might I ask if you received reasonable trade consideration? Everything I've seen, both on lots and anecdotal reports from other members has been extremely poor with almost 35-40% 1-year depreciation being commonplace. Ford must really be willing to take a bite on these short-term lease incentives given both their short terms and relatively low lease prices (the fact that they're advertising base-equipped FWD models notwithstanding).

The good news is that the first year's stock of EcoBoost-equipped vehicles is now coming-up for year end incentive support. If we can at-all make a rational jusification by keeping he hit we take to under $1,000/month of ownership, I too would consider moving up to a 2010 Ecoboost once they become available. If only Dark Ink Blue was still available.

Most used models I'm seeing on lots (AWD w/Ultimate) are being listed at $33-34, meaning a final price of about $31,000 and trade values up to about $29. It would just be SO hard to take a $14K depreciation hit in 8 months of ownership, so we may well have to wait another year+ until the 2011's are beginning to be phased-out. But for as striking as the Dark Ink Blue has proved to be which more-or-less relegated us to the 2009's even when the very 1st EcoBoosts were showing up and even with the incentives we ultimately received, I often find myself regretting having not bitten the bullet, especially since we lack Adaptive Cruise and Park Assist.

Even as terrific as MKS is, it's still a very big ask when Taurus offers nearly so much for $7K (or more) less. I have NO doubt that Taurus is MKS' top competitor and the drop in MKS sales is directly attributable to Taurus. That's the kind of problem Ford HAS to fix for Lincoln to remain even as barely viable as it is. One option we will keep open for ourselves is the potential of buying a used 2010 w/EcoBoost or perhaps even waiting until the 2011's become even more cheap relative to the 2012's if the 2012's move to a glass cockpit. One thing's certain, MKS is getting absolutely NO love in the resale market despite being a fundamentally terrific vehicle.

On a side note, I'm really surprised by some of the dealers who STILL have lingering '09s on their lots. With RARE exception, dealers are offering little to no negotiating room and Ford is offering absolutely NO incentives or marketing support to dealers to clear them. Most are still asking their standard "invoice plus" pricing, even after very aggressive haggling. I saw one dealer that had 2 '09's while ALSO carrying a stock of some 19 or more 2010's. He must be doing something right in other areas, because he also happens to have 20+ EcoBoost MKT's on the lot, and those things are just simply NOT selling.

This post has been edited by Madlock: 24 March 2010 - 11:26 PM

[Armjim]

I really wonder what Ford has in store for Lincoln? I am aghast that unlike Toyota who rolls out all the technology and luxuries on the LS and then lets them filter down to other models, Lincoln seems to be not regarded as being Ford Motor Company's flagship. I knew this was going to happen when Lincoln ceased having a plant dedicated to building only Lincolns. I am wondering if other than the Bridge of Weir leather and genuine wood, are the appointments and materials in the MKS better than in the Taurus? Could you even imagine people on a Lexus blog comparing the Lexus LS 460 with the Toyota Camry? That is what this discussion is tantamount to, and it is disappointing to me.

Part of the reason for buying a car in this price range is the perception that you are getting the best the maufacturer has to offer. Ford's responsibility to the shareholders of course, is to turn a profit and make money, and if that means placing Ford above Mercury and equal to Lincoln, then they do that and make certain the Ford brand contributes heavily to the bottom line to make up for Mercury and Lincoln. (I am keeping Volvo out of the discussion).

I don't see it getting any better since the Town Car is going away. Perception is reality as is often said, and the perception is that Lincoln is not comparable to other makes in the luxury price class. Disappointing indeed.

[Mark S]

Armjim, on Mar 25 2010, 10:25 AM, said:

I really wonder what Ford has in store for Lincoln? I am aghast that unlike Toyota who rolls out all the technology and luxuries on the LS and then lets them filter down to other models, Lincoln seems to be not regarded as being Ford Motor Company's flagship. I knew this was going to happen when Lincoln ceased having a plant dedicated to building only Lincolns. I am wondering if other than the Bridge of Weir leather and genuine wood, are the appointments and materials in the MKS better than in the Taurus? Could you even imagine people on a Lexus blog comparing the Lexus LS 460 with the Toyota Camry? That is what this discussion is tantamount to, and it is disappointing to me.

Part of the reason for buying a car in this price range is the perception that you are getting the best the maufacturer has to offer. Ford's responsibility to the shareholders of course, is to turn a profit and make money, and if that means placing Ford above Mercury and equal to Lincoln, then they do that and make certain the Ford brand contributes heavily to the bottom line to make up for Mercury and Lincoln. (I am keeping Volvo out of the discussion).

I don't see it getting any better since the Town Car is going away. Perception is reality as is often said, and the perception is that Lincoln is not comparable to other makes in the luxury price class. Disappointing indeed.

Congratulations to KitC on the new purchase.
Good luck with your new MKS.
I hope the NAV is updated.
I think the 2009 MKS is a fine car.
The trade in values do not agree with my assessment.
The resale values do not agree with most of us on this forum.
I wonder which trade will be worth more next year?
MKS Ecoboost Ultimate or Loaded Taurus SHO?
I will drive my 2009 MKS into the ground.
I will not buy another.

[brucelinc]

Armjim, on Mar 25 2010, 09:25 AM, said:

I really wonder what Ford has in store for Lincoln? I am aghast that unlike Toyota who rolls out all the technology and luxuries on the LS and then lets them filter down to other models, Lincoln seems to be not regarded as being Ford Motor Company's flagship. I knew this was going to happen when Lincoln ceased having a plant dedicated to building only Lincolns. I am wondering if other than the Bridge of Weir leather and genuine wood, are the appointments and materials in the MKS better than in the Taurus? Could you even imagine people on a Lexus blog comparing the Lexus LS 460 with the Toyota Camry? That is what this discussion is tantamount to, and it is disappointing to me.

Part of the reason for buying a car in this price range is the perception that you are getting the best the maufacturer has to offer. Ford's responsibility to the shareholders of course, is to turn a profit and make money, and if that means placing Ford above Mercury and equal to Lincoln, then they do that and make certain the Ford brand contributes heavily to the bottom line to make up for Mercury and Lincoln. (I am keeping Volvo out of the discussion).

I don't see it getting any better since the Town Car is going away. Perception is reality as is often said, and the perception is that Lincoln is not comparable to other makes in the luxury price class. Disappointing indeed.

OK, I am a huge fan of the MKS ecoboost as well as a Ford fan and stockholder, and I will throw out a couple of opposing views to some of the points here.

First, Lincoln squandered their "prestige" reputation over a period of years. The brand was basically ignored and until the MKS was introduced we had the embarrassingly out of date Town Car, the uncompetitive Navigator, the slightly tweaked Fusion called the Zephyr, and the trouble-prone Aviator. The LS was one somewhat bright spot over the past 10 years but it was not kept up to date and early models had many problems. My point is that with this situation for several years, any luster the name "Lincoln" had was severely tarnished. So, heck no, Lincoln does not have the perception of being comparable to Lexus.

The good news is that Ford is slowly rebuilding the Lincoln brand. It is not going to happen overnight but the MKS ecoboost is the most competitive Lincoln in years and the best vehicle they have ever produced. It is NOT a Lexus LS460 competitor, however. While the MKS is the Lincoln flagship at the moment, I hope they do eventually offer a higher end model. That will require a new RWD platform and the money isn't there to do that yet.

While no one would compare a Camry to an LS 460, they certainly do compare a Camry to an ES350. The MKS is closer in price to a loaded ES350 than to the LS 460. Instead of being critical of Lincoln for not offering much more than a Taurus, I congratulate Ford for moving the Taurus upmarket. It is no longer a Camry competitor - Fusion has that job. The Taurus is more of an Avalon competitor.

Any time there is a mid-cycle refresh or the introduction of a new model, it will have the newest technology and features. When the MKS was introduced, we got the best NAV, sync, and sound systems, the capless fuel tank, the swiveling headlights, adaptive cruise, etc. Some, but not all of that has trickled down to other Ford products. The 2010 Taurus has a couple of things missing on the MKS - BLIS and massaging seats for example. However, the 2010 MKS has a number of features not found in the Taurus - swiveling headlights, THX sound system, better sealing around the front doors, more adjustable lumbar support, dual panel moonroof, front parking sensors, park assist, linings inside the door pockets, illuminated sill plates, soft touch materials on the lower part of the doors, dual armrests on the console, a better warranty, etc.

Speaking of the Taurus, if you want ecoboost (which was a "must" for me), the SHO is the only option. That gives you a stiffer suspension, any color interior you want as long as it is black, fake suede which feels like cloth, no wood trim, goofy metallic stuff on the pedals and the unavailablility of the other things I have already mentioned. While I agree that the Taurus has taken some MKS sales, I do not see the SHO and MKS ecoboost appealing to the same buyer. I can easily see how you could prefer one over the other. I can also see where saving a few thousand bucks would be appealing. However, if you really compare and drive both, the differences are significant.

This post has been edited by brucelinc: 27 March 2010 - 10:12 AM

[ranger3]

I drove the 2010 Lincoln MKS with and without Eco Boost. I also drove the SHO. There weren't enough differences in my mind for the difference in the price between the MKS and SHO but ultimately bought the MKS with Eco Boost and couldn't be happier. I am irritated that adjustable pedals are not available on the MKS.

I did look at 2009 MKS priced with the ultimate package in the 33-34 price range and you could buy the 2010 with the ultimate package (sticker price at 48K for about 43K. I don't think you'll do any better with most brands for one year depreciation other than maybe Lexus or Mercedes. Certainly Cadillac and Infiniti are going see that in the first year.

My wife and I also drove the 2010 Mercedes E350, Lexus ES350, Infiniti M35x, Buick LuCerne, Cadillac CTS, Toyota Avalon, as well as the Lincoln MKZ and SHO. My wife is much more critical of shortcomings in cars than I am and Never complained about anything on the MKS or the Lexus. I was particularly disappointed in the CTS as well as the Toyota and Buick LuCerne. In this day and age not having GPS or backup cameras availalbe on an over 40K car is unexcusable. My wife and I also thought the seats in the Mercedes and CTS were particularly disappointing. The ride in the CTS was also very harsh on the roads where we live.

[Madlock]

brucelinc, on Mar 27 2010, 11:08 AM, said:

OK, I am a huge fan of the MKS ecoboost as well as a Ford fan and stockholder, and I will throw out a couple of opposing views to some of the points here.

First, Lincoln squandered their "prestige" reputation over a period of years. The brand was basically ignored and until the MKS was introduced we had the embarrassingly out of date Town Car, the uncompetitive Navigator, the slightly tweaked Fusion called the Zephyr, and the trouble-prone Aviator. The LS was one somewhat bright spot over the past 10 years but it was not kept up to date and early models had many problems. My point is that with this situation for several years, any luster the name "Lincoln" had was severely tarnished. So, heck no, Lincoln does not have the perception of being comparable to Lexus.

The good news is that Ford is slowly rebuilding the Lincoln brand. It is not going to happen overnight but the MKS ecoboost is the most competitive Lincoln in years and the best vehicle they have ever produced. It is NOT a Lexus LS460 competitor, however. While the MKS is the Lincoln flagship at the moment, I hope they do eventually offer a higher end model. That will require a new RWD platform and the money isn't there to do that yet.

While no one would compare a Camry to an LS 460, they certainly do compare a Camry to an ES350. The MKS is closer in price to a loaded ES350 than to the LS 460. Instead of being critical of Lincoln for not offering much more than a Taurus, I congratulate Ford for moving the Taurus upmarket. It is no longer a Camry competitor - Fusion has that job. The Taurus is more of an Avalon competitor.

Any time there is a mid-cycle refresh or the introduction of a new model, it will have the newest technology and features. When the MKS was introduced, we got the best NAV, sync, and sound systems, the capless fuel tank, the swiveling headlights, adaptive cruise, etc. Some, but not all of that has trickled down to other Ford products. The 2010 Taurus has a couple of things missing on the MKS - BLIS and massaging seats for example. However, the 2010 MKS has a number of features not found in the Taurus - swiveling headlights, THX sound system, better sealing around the front doors, more adjustable lumbar support, dual panel moonroof, front parking sensors, park assist, linings inside the door pockets, illuminated sill plates, soft touch materials on the lower part of the doors, dual armrests on the console, a better warranty, etc.

Speaking of the Taurus, if you want ecoboost (which was a "must" for me), the SHO is the only option. That gives you a stiffer suspension, any color interior you want as long as it is black, fake suede which feels like cloth, no wood trim, goofy metallic stuff on the pedals and the unavailablility of the other things I have already mentioned. While I agree that the Taurus has taken some MKS sales, I do not see the SHO and MKS ecoboost appealing to the same buyer. I can easily see how you could prefer one over the other. I can also see where saving a few thousand bucks would be appealing. However, if you really compare and drive both, the differences are significant.

I generally agree; but features like forward distance sensors, THX, etc are brand differentiators, something inherently safety based as BLIS isn't. And as for Active Motion seats, that's another discrepancy in the brand hierarchy (among others) Ford must correct and prevent as it delineates it's brands and product, especially when naked similarities exist. Despite the many valid line items you mention, among the general non-enthusiastic civilian marketplace an overwhelming majority never get past the $7K MKS/Taurus price delta, and a good many who choose MKS must do so in many cases despite, rather than because of its characteristics and value proposition package.

As for Ford needing to develop from ground up a new RWD platform to play in the performance (from a driving dynamics perspective) segment, a properly-biased true AWD system is the true state of the art; and even so, Ford need look no further (or farther) than the one place on earth where good ol' fashioned American-style RWD performance driving to compete with the very best Europeans can still be found... Australia. America wouldn't know what to do with itself if the Falcon and G-Series made their way stateside. I'd dare say, between FLM brands, there'd be MORE than enough room to accommodate a D3-derived AWD product in Taurus and MKS alongside a Falcon-derived Mercury entry tuned for drive dynamics, and perhaps even among Ford as a reinvented Crown Vic or... even better, LTD or Gran Torino for fleet operators who can't overcome a RWD bias. I know it rather flies in the face of a "One"
global Ford, but so does not exploiting world-class bought-and-paid-for assets to their maximum potential when they so clearly could enhance the brand.

And the Falcon is a classic looker in the way the aggressive, heavy-handed 2010 Taurus design language will never be. Let's hope there's room for Falcon after Panther.

[brucelinc]

No doubt most buyers have a hard time justifying the price difference between a Taurus and an MKS. Some of that goes back to the problem that Lincoln has with its tarnished image. Owning a Lincoln doesn't mean any more than owning a Ford. However, owning a Lexus provides more status in in the mind of the buyer than owning a Toyota, even though a loaded Avalon or even a loaded Camry provides near Lexus features and quality.

As for the adjustable pedals: I think the motor than operates those is located in the same place as the motor that operates the power tilt/telescope wheel. Without some significant work, having both was a problem. In the Lincoln, you get power tilt/telescope while in the Taurus you can have the power pedals. I prefer the power tilt/telescope but others certainly could disagree. Having both would be great.

Yes, the Lincoln should have the BLIS system and the active motion seats, if for no other reason than perception. I prefer to actually see cars in my mirrors rather than blinking lights. That is why I adjust the mirrors to eliminate blind spots. The MKS has the little mirrors within the side mirrors that give a nice view of outbound lanes when on a multi-lane freeway. They also give you a nice view when pulling on to a freeway at an angle. They are certainly not as high tech as BLIS but I would argue that they are at least as effective in terms of safety. I was skepical at first but I have since discovered their value.

I certainly hope that Lincoln has a true higher-end entry by the time I am ready to replace my MKS. I think they will need one to really regain the brand luster that is currently missing. In the meantime, I am loving my MKS and the surprised looks on peoples faces when they say, "Wow, I didn't know Lincoln made a car this cool!"

[poquita10]

brucelinc, on Mar 28 2010, 10:15 AM, said:

No doubt most buyers have a hard time justifying the price difference between a Taurus and an MKS. Some of that goes back to the problem that Lincoln has with its tarnished image. Owning a Lincoln doesn't mean any more than owning a Ford. However, owning a Lexus provides more status in in the mind of the buyer than owning a Toyota, even though a loaded Avalon or even a loaded Camry provides near Lexus features and quality.

As for the adjustable pedals: I think the motor than operates those is located in the same place as the motor that operates the power tilt/telescope wheel. Without some significant work, having both was a problem. In the Lincoln, you get power tilt/telescope while in the Taurus you can have the power pedals. I prefer the power tilt/telescope but others certainly could disagree. Having both would be great.

Yes, the Lincoln should have the BLIS system and the active motion seats, if for no other reason than perception. I prefer to actually see cars in my mirrors rather than blinking lights. That is why I adjust the mirrors to eliminate blind spots. The MKS has the little mirrors within the side mirrors that give a nice view of outbound lanes when on a multi-lane freeway. They also give you a nice view when pulling on to a freeway at an angle. They are certainly not as high tech as BLIS but I would argue that they are at least as effective in terms of safety. I was skepical at first but I have since discovered their value.

I certainly hope that Lincoln has a true higher-end entry by the time I am ready to replace my MKS. I think they will need one to really regain the brand luster that is currently missing. In the meantime, I am loving my MKS and the surprised looks on peoples faces when they say, "Wow, I didn't know Lincoln made a car this cool!"

My other car is a 2006 V8 LS. I have always thought of it as a fast car with excellent acceleration, and when getting on to a freeway here in Phoenix, the acceleration is important because the motorists here are not very polite to put it mildly. Suffice it to say I have not lost a challenge. We took delivery of a 2010 EcoBoost MKS in mid January and in the 3 Months and 800 miles we’ve had it I have never mashed the throttle to the floor until last night when I did it accidently. I was doing about 15 miles an hour on a 3 lane highway and decided to pass the car in front that was setting that pace. I swung out into the next lane and by mistake I floored the MKS. It was like we were catapulted off an aircraft carrier. Our heads were slammed back against the head rests, and for an instant I thought I was driving a runaway Prius. I have owned a Beechcraft Bonanza and flown Gulfstream GIII’s and flown in Lear Jets, but never have I experienced the instant acceleration of the MKS. I won’t do it again, but it is nice to know it is there if you need it. I love that car!

[brucelinc]

poquita10, on Apr 13 2010, 11:57 AM, said:

My other car is a 2006 V8 LS. I have always thought of it as a fast car with excellent acceleration, and when getting on to a freeway here in Phoenix, the acceleration is important because the motorists here are not very polite to put it mildly. Suffice it to say I have not lost a challenge. We took delivery of a 2010 EcoBoost MKS in mid January and in the 3 Months and 800 miles we’ve had it I have never mashed the throttle to the floor until last night when I did it accidently. I was doing about 15 miles an hour on a 3 lane highway and decided to pass the car in front that was setting that pace. I swung out into the next lane and by mistake I floored the MKS. It was like we were catapulted off an aircraft carrier. Our heads were slammed back against the head rests, and for an instant I thought I was driving a runaway Prius. I have owned a Beechcraft Bonanza and flown Gulfstream GIII’s and flown in Lear Jets, but never have I experienced the instant acceleration of the MKS. I won’t do it again, but it is nice to know it is there if you need it. I love that car!

Awesome! The first time I floored mine was to pass a slower car on a 2-lane county blacktop road with a fairly short passing opportunity. The limit was 60 and the slower car was doing about 45. Behind him, I floored the MKS and it kicked down to 3rd or 2nd - I am not sure which - and I dang near rear-ended him before I could turn into the left lane. I quickly realized that I need to pull out to pass before kicking it down.

[poquita10]

brucelinc, on Apr 13 2010, 05:04 PM, said:

Awesome! The first time I floored mine was to pass a slower car on a 2-lane county blacktop road with a fairly short passing opportunity. The limit was 60 and the slower car was doing about 45. Behind him, I floored the MKS and it kicked down to 3rd or 2nd - I am not sure which - and I dang near rear-ended him before I could turn into the left lane. I quickly realized that I need to pull out to pass before kicking it down.

If the MKS changed gears I wasn't aware of it. I was hanging on for dear life for a moment until I backed off the accelerator. Fun car!

This post has been edited by poquita10: 15 April 2010 - 04:15 PM