[Ricker]

I don't know what I'm going to do about this BRAKE ISSUE. I finally took the MKS in for service for a bunch of issues and an oil/filter change.

The brakes occasionally make a dull grinding sound when slowing down to about 5mph or less. The brakes feel like they do when they're wet(but they're not) or as if the ABS was activated.

The dealer sanded the rotors down for me last week. The service advisor also stated that the rotors had some rust build up on 'em. The sanding didn't help. The sound/feel is no better, and maybe worse.

I'm dropping the car off tomorrow(again) so the service advisor can drive it.

[Waldo]

There is a proper service fix coming, but in the meantime you might suggest they put a bit of anti-squeel or other grease on the back of the pad. This might help for a little while.

Ultimately this issue is just a noise issue, the brakes are working just as well with or without the noise, so no need to worry about performance. I think you'll also find as the temperature warms up the issue becomes less frequent.

[johncongemi]

Waldo, on Apr 7 2009, 07:20 AM, said:

There is a proper service fix coming, but in the meantime you might suggest they put a bit of anti-squeel or other grease on the back of the pad. This might help for a little while.

Ultimately this issue is just a noise issue, the brakes are working just as well with or without the noise, so no need to worry about performance. I think you'll also find as the temperature warms up the issue becomes less frequent.

[johncongemi]

Ricker, on Apr 6 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

I don't know what I'm going to do about this BRAKE ISSUE. I finally took the MKS in for service for a bunch of issues and an oil/filter change.

The brakes occasionally make a dull grinding sound when slowing down to about 5mph or less. The brakes feel like they do when they're wet(but they're not) or as if the ABS was activated.

The dealer sanded the rotors down for me last week. The service advisor also stated that the rotors had some rust build up on 'em. The sanding didn't help. The sound/feel is no better, and maybe worse.

I'm dropping the car off tomorrow(again) so the service advisor can drive it.

I had the same issue, same sanding, same non-result. I realized that that the noise wasn't comming from the brakes. but from the suspension, when the chassis rose after the dip from braking. It did the same thing when I went over a speed bump in a parking lot. It was worse on cold days. They installed a sway bar bushing. Problem solved. We are in the 30s/40s now, so I'll see if the fix holds next winter.

[frustrated]

That's very interesting! They have already replaced my break pads & rotors & the noise is still the same. I will have to mention this to the dealer. They have said that it isn't a safety issue, so why complain, I don't feel that we should have to listen to that noise. Not in a new car.

[Ricker]

frustrated, on Apr 10 2009, 01:23 PM, said:

That's very interesting! They have already replaced my break pads & rotors & the noise is still the same. I will have to mention this to the dealer. They have said that it isn't a safety issue, so why complain, I don't feel that we should have to listen to that noise. Not in a new car.

Brakes are fixed!!! I just picked up the car yesterday and all the disturbing sounds are gone.
The pair of front brake pads were replaced, the rotors were grinded even more and the special grease recommended from Ford Motor Company was applied.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, hoping and praying for no more noise.

[samabhi126]

Ricker, on Apr 6 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

I don't know what I'm going to do about this BRAKE ISSUE. I finally took the MKS in for service for a bunch of issues and an oil/filter change.

The brakes occasionally make a dull grinding sound when slowing down to about 5mph or less. The brakes feel like they do when they're wet(but they're not) or as if the ABS was activated.

The dealer sanded the rotors down for me last week. The service advisor also stated that the rotors had some rust build up on 'em. The sanding didn't help. The sound/feel is no better, and maybe worse.

I'm dropping the car off tomorrow(again) so the service advisor can drive it.

I think you should change it entirely. Then only this problem can be solved.

[jhockema]

I have had the same problem. Seems to come from the left front wheel under harder braking conditions, as the car slows. Car even pulls down a little.

The first time I had the problem, I had just had my car serviced, and thought that my lug nuts may have been improperly torqued. However, after more time, my observation is that it comes after I have used an automatic car wash with the an undercarriage spray. After a while, the noise will go away. So, it seems that the problem is caused by rust or lubrication washing away from the braking or suspension system. My theory is that as the rust is knocked off, or the grease redistributed, the problem subsides.

[Bevo71]

jhockema, on Jul 14 2009, 12:42 AM, said:

I have had the same problem. Seems to come from the left front wheel under harder braking conditions, as the car slows. Car even pulls down a little.

The first time I had the problem, I had just had my car serviced, and thought that my lug nuts may have been improperly torqued. However, after more time, my observation is that it comes after I have used an automatic car wash with the an undercarriage spray. After a while, the noise will go away. So, it seems that the problem is caused by rust or lubrication washing away from the braking or suspension system. My theory is that as the rust is knocked off, or the grease redistributed, the problem subsides.

I'm glad I read this thread and jhockema's post. That same sold happened to mine on my trip...after a car wash where the undercarriage was sprayed. I parked the car for an hour and when I started to drive it, the sound and grinding "feel" happened when I braked. It eventually went away.

[rgould1055]

I own a 2009 MKS and have had the brake grinding issue since day one. The vehicle has been back to the dealership several times for service but to date they have not been able to fix the problem. I live in Florida and it doesn't seem to matter if it is a cool evening or hot day, the brakes continue to grind. The problem is getting progressively worse. I understand that a TSB is supposed to be issued that will address this problem. Does anyone klnow if it has been issued and, if so, what is the TSB number?

[Smokestone]

Add me to the list of owners having this problem. On our MKS it's most noticeable when breaking going down hill. A co-worker told me he had a simular problem with his new Ford Flex and Ford fixxed it.

I'm calling to take it in to my dealer, I'll keep you all posted.

[johncongemi]

Smokestone, on Aug 31 2009, 11:19 AM, said:

Add me to the list of owners having this problem. On our MKS it's most noticeable when breaking going down hill. A co-worker told me he had a simular problem with his new Ford Flex and Ford fixxed it.

I'm calling to take it in to my dealer, I'll keep you all posted.

My problem was the same, no results ofter brakes being ground twice. A sway bar bushing was replaced and the noise disappeared. Still good since April. We'll see what happens in the winter.

[Smokestone]

johncongemi, on Sep 1 2009, 05:56 PM, said:

My problem was the same, no results ofter brakes being ground twice. A sway bar bushing was replaced and the noise disappeared. Still good since April. We'll see what happens in the winter.

Thanks for the info, I'll keep that in mind. Picked my car up from the dealer today. The replaced the pads with (a new kind of pad that was developed to fix the problem" (whatever that means). Time will tell.

[rgould1055]

Ricker, on Apr 10 2009, 06:57 PM, said:

Brakes are fixed!!! I just picked up the car yesterday and all the disturbing sounds are gone.
The pair of front brake pads were replaced, the rotors were grinded even more and the special grease recommended from Ford Motor Company was applied.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, hoping and praying for no more noise.

I had the same problem and after 3 times trying, the dealer said Ford issued a TSB for the fix. The fix lasted only 1 week, my breaks are back to grinding when I stop. Here in Florida, if the problem can't be fixed in 3 attempts we can start Lemon Law proceedings. I sure would hate to do that but it seems Ford can't fix this problem.

[brucelinc]

This brake thing has me baffled. I do not have the problem but I have read about it here and on other forums and am curious about it. Disc brakes have been around for years and there is nothing complicated about them. I wish a tech with some experience on this issue would provide an explanation.

I could understand the pins upon which the calipers slide might need grease. If that is the noise, why would they machine the rotors? There is certainly no grease between the pads and rotors so machining the rotors and "using a special grease" do not have anything in common. I could also understand if they used pads from a supplier that might have a problem but that seems like an easy diagnosis and fix, too.

For those of you with brake noise, are you sure it is the brakes and not sway bar bushings or strut bushings? When you apply the brakes, the front end would drop slightly and what sounds like brakes grinding could be suspension noise. There were cases with the Taurus in which the struts needed repositioned slightly because there was some metal to metal contact when going over bumps while applying the brakes. A friend of mine with a Taurus had that issue and he thought it was brakes but the dealer knew exactly what to do to fix it.

I would love to hear more about this problem and the ultimate solution.

[Waldo]

It has to do with the interaction of the pad material with the rotors. Certain conditions set off a particular harmonic vibration which is then transmitted through the pad into the caliper, then into the knuckle. You attack the problem several ways:
1 - Eliminate the source of vibration by changing pad material (very expensive to re-certify and will compromise other attributes like brake feel, stopping distance, fade and dust)
2 - Add a bunch of grease or damping to the back of the pad so that it doesn't trasmit as much of the vibration
3 - Add a bunch of grease to the caliper so that is doesn't transmit as much vibration
4 - Change the shape and interaction of the pad and/or caliper to change it's resonant frequency

There's probably some more alternatives out there, but I believe Ford's tried combinations of 2-4. But if you put aftermarket pads in there, it changes #1 and the problem goes away completely.

And yes disc brakes have been around for decades, but it all comes down to #1, given a certain size brake and a certain mass of vehicle and certain desired braking attributes, you'll end up stuck on a particular friction material. If you look at the ratio of brake rotor size to vehicle mass, you'll see that we're not really in the same place we used to be. Asbestos pads used to solve all these problems, but you can't have that anymore.

[brucelinc]

Thanks, Waldo. I usually think of harmonic vibration as a cause for brake squeal rather than a grinding noise but your explanation makes sense. I wonder if the 2010s use the same brake pad material as the 2009s. If mine ever causes a problem, I will be tempted to install a set of pads from NAPA. I used their ceramic pads on my LS and they were quiet, had good feel, and no dust.

[tgara]

I took my 2009 MKS AWD in for it's 15K service. I was also experiencing the rear door lock rod problem (fixable under TSB 08-24-03) and the brake grind/groan/creak noises.

With respect to the brake issues, I was informed that there is now a TSB for this, TSB #09-24-14 (Front Brakes Groaning or Creaking). I did not look at the original TSB, but the Service Advisor tells me that the fix involves a few new brake parts that had to be ordered, among other things. I'll try and get more info about this fix. I'll take my car back in once the parts arrive. After installation, I'll report my experience on the fix.

[tgara]

My car was serviced by the dealer today for the brake groan issue. As I posted above, TSB 09-24-14 was applied. Here is the text from the service order:

Performed TSB 09-24-14. Installed SOP (special order parts) per TSB. Replaced front brake pads, hardware, and bolt kit. Resurfaced front rotors using on car brake lathe.

Parts used:

1 of AG1Z-2001-D Brake Kit
4 of W715091-S439 Bolt Kit

On the drive home, the car was noticeably quieter on a fast stop. There was no groaning or creaking from the front end. So far so good. If anything changes, I will post a followup.

[wasiloff]

As a long term , loyal Lincoln customer (currently drive an MKS and MKX), I regret that I must report that I am extremely dissatisfied with the manner in which the Varsity Lincoln Dealership of Wixom, Michigan failed to resolve my MKS brake failure mode. I have been advised that nothing can be done until the new fix is available.

I strongly feel that I should have been provided a replacement vehicle until corrective action is fully implemented.

When my neighbors ask "why that beautiful Lincoln" remains parked in my driveway?, I can only reply “"because it is unsafe to drive due to brake system malfunction".”. Words I never thought I would have to say…

This post has been edited by wasiloff: 26 August 2010 - 07:08 AM